AUBURN CORD DUESENBERG CLUB

[dryesandno]

hi

just taking delivery of a 1937 cord 812 s/c convertible coupe. repatriating the car from europe. well almost, it will be in Canada. getting much closer to its hometown in Auburn Indiana.

i could use some advice and help on a couple of things.

the exterior of the car is currently black and the top is tan, which i believe are correct possible combinations for the convertible coupe.

the interior is a fawn beige colour. it is my understanding that for a black car the factory choices were maroon or brown. if i was to show the car at an acd meet, would i be deducted points if the interior wasn't the same colour as the factory?

the dash is a greyish maroon. i think it is supposed to be grey. same question as above.

the wheels are painted black. should they be grey or maroon or match the interior. seems the car might look classier with a wheel colour other than black. if i did this, would it affect me in judging.

the tires are blackwalls, but i can change them to whitewalls without any point deduction, right.

the cars has apparently been certified by the acd club as C-185. certificate number 7361850-2. is there some way to get an original copy of the certificate or at least see that this info is correct. all a certificate means is that the body, frame and engine are original but it doesn't mean the interior, dash etc are correct, right?

the numbers on the car are as follows:

chassis no. 31949F

engine no. FC 2708

cc no. ? 4729 (what does this mean if anything?)

are the above numbers matching or is it hard to tell.

finally i have a question about providence on this car. it is my understanding the car was once owned by E. L. Cord's grandson Chris Cord. how can i trace the history of ownership for a car originally manufactured in the united states. i have done some homework on the family history and found the following.

E. L. Cord had a son named Billy James Cord who passed away in 1945 leaving an only son, Christopher Stephen Cord who was only five years old at the time of his father's death. i was saddened to learn of this. i wonder how chris cord made out in life having been dealt these cards. is he still alive? where does he live.

does anyone know if Christopher Cord ever owned a cord 812 s/c convertible coupe. if he did, how did he come to own the car. was it willed to him by his father's estate, was he a car collector in his own right? and if he did own this particular car, how long did he own it for and why did he sell it? did Chris Cord own other cars built by his grandfather?

i am always amazed at the knowledge of the senior emeritus on this site. i am a bit younger, not much, but trying to keep the dreams alive like the rest of you for the next generation. often all this great history gets lost. i would like to piece this puzzle together for future generations. having your help on this type of project is really appreciated. thanks in advance for your replies.

brent

[Hubert Andre]

Is it the convertible that was for sale in an auction in UK last month ???
_________________
Cord 810 westchester #1902A and #1807A

[Bill Hummel]

[Bill Hummel]

[dryesandno]

hubert

the cord 812 was purchased in the UK, but its a convertible coupe not a westchester. bought at the H & H auction.

thanks

brent

[dryesandno]

bill

gee. thats really cool that you are a relative. thanks a whole lot for shedding some light on this. i have provided below the link to the auction calendar. if you click on it you should get to the index of past sale results. you will then have to click on the october 3, 2005 sale results, then click on lot #16. you should see a picture of the car and also a written description indicating that Chris Cord owned the car and that it has Cord family provenance. can you review it and see what you think. i wonder if i was dupped?

i suppose its still a great car in any case, but it would be interesting to know if there is any truth to the auctioneers claim. any chance you could call chris or charles. its a great excuse to touch base with them. i would sure appreciate it. anyhow, even if you don't feel comfortable i totally understand, thanks alot for your response.

sorry i couldn't figure out how else to post the thing. i hope this works.

cheers

brent

www.classic-auctions.com/cars_results_index.html

[Bill Hummel]

Thanks! Just don't look under the hood or inside the car. I still have a LOT to do.

Now I said the dash was supposed to match the interior. If you have a maroon interior then the color matches that. If it is tan, then it should be tan. If you have a grey interior then the dash is grey.

Only the steering column, steering wheel, quadrant, knobs, wheels, etc match the body color.

[Auburn/Cord Parts]

Brent,

The information listed for this Cord shows Serial#31948F.
Current Engine#FC2708, S/C#V1562, Body#Plate is missing.
31949H is an existing Cord but not this Cabriolet. There is also another
Serial#1948S Beverly.

Previous owners include William Schultz, George Ehresman, Chris Cord,
Tenny Natkin, Peter Rosi, Dr. Eugene Gregaline, and Chris Cord a
second time. The certification review form C-185 indicates that the number plate is not an original. I heard that this Cord was recently sold at an
Auction near London along with a couple of Auburn speedsters.

Historically, this car is all Cord parts however, it's not what you would
call a matching numbers car. Don't worry about the colors, you car is
fine. The standard colors combinations are what is published not what was available as could be ordered. I visited with Chris Cord many times and he was disappointed with how this Cord handled. Chris Cord was on a race car team with Actor Paul Newman and Frank Carney (Pizza Hut)
He expected alot from 1937 technology on handling from the Cord.
Enjoy your Cord.

Cordially
Stan

[dryesandno]

stan

thanks a whole bunch for the info. i really appreciate you taking the time to look into this for me. we are very lucky to be able to correspond through this site with those of you who have such an intimate knowledge of these cars. i can't thank you guys enough.

that's really cool that chris cord owned the car not once, but twice. i wonder how he came upon the car. did he just buy it like the rest of us do. and its interesting how he sold it then bought it again. i wonder what led him to buy it for a second time and them sell it again?

one thing on the info. you say the car is registered as 31948F. but the body tag from the manufacturer definitely says 31949F. in checking josh malks book appendix IV, he lists the following:

812 31946H FC2669 C91563 Convertible Phaeton.
812 31948F FC2708 blank Convertible Coupe.
812 blank blank C96246 Beverly sedan bustleback
812 31950 FC3008 C92249 Convertible Coupe

the car has not arrived yet, but i have a picture of the plate and can confirm that the numbers on the tag read:

812 31949F

yet the engine # is listed in the sales brochure as FC2708.

clearly something is mixed up. is it not possible that the 812 blank blank beverly sedan bustleback is incorrect and that serial #31949F is in fact a convertible coupe? do you have any documentation on that beverly sedan other than the body # listed in josh malks book?

are you getting your info from the certificate C-185 number 73651850-2 in concluding that its not a numbers matching car? is there a file detailing the checks that went into the certificate? if so where can i view it? as a new owner, do i need to get the certificate registered in my name?

i would like to sort this thing out. is there some way i can check the frame or other parts to confirm why the tag on the car says 31949F and yet you say its 31948F? if you are correct should the tag be changed to match the number you are quoting or what?

thanks for your assistance in helping me to sort this out.

brent

[Auburn/Cord Parts]

Brent,

Chris Cord bought this Cord from George Ehresman just like you and I would from an ad. It was and is a good looking Cord.

The Body tag witht he registartion numbers is a new (30yrs ago) plate
that has been stamped with the numbers that were used when George put it together. Back then, the new Central Mfg, Body I.D. Plate was left blank.
Just because a list is printed in a book doesn't make it 100% correct. I
have listed for many years 1948S as a known Beverly I also have a
31949H S/C Phaeton that could be questionable. Your number 31949F was likely generated from the frame number 949. which is logical if it's the original frame???
(The factory did make mistakes occasionally too!)
The 3 Ehresman brothers built (assembled) a lot of cars out of parts over the year. George's favorite color was black and he did several Cabriolets in this color. One Cabriolet he built was converted to having a rumble seat.

yes, this Cord is all Cord but may have came from more than one car.
Yes, you should have the certification transferred to your name.
It is possible due to the time frame and lack of transfers being continous with all the owners that it will need re-inspected.

I'm not making any conclusions nor suggestions to changes at this time but, one thing is that there can't be 2 cars with the same number.
Paul Bryant ( listed in the newletter) is the one to contact and can help
with certification issues. It's his call if it needs re-inspected and this could help possibly. We could find another Cord that has your correct number but C-185 is listed as 31948F & 31949F as the number on a newer plate

Cordially
Stan

[Josh Malks]

One of the problems with books, of course, is that they are static. That is, whatever was said in them remains the same even when viewed ten years later when there is more information. That's one of the wonders of the Internet --- we can update continually.

The numbers in my book came from Ron Irwin, the official Cord Historian of the ACD Club. Since the publication of the book Ron has sent me lots of new information. Nearly all of it relates to newly-found Cords, but a few are newly-discovered corrections.

Regularly, Ron has to sort through webs of conflicting data --- mixed up frames and bodies, repro plates with errors, plates transferred among cars, Motor Vehicle Bureau's typos, and on and on. Stan's post refers to some of these. Ron does an outstanding job, and we should be thankful to him for his dedication for these many decades.

The ACD Club's Membership Renewal Form for 2006 will ask for your car(s)'s serial, engine and body numbers. It's optional, but putting it in will help Ron update the club's information and preserve this authentic knowledge for future years. So please do it. Thanks.
_________________
Josh B. Malks
810 2087A
ACD Club Life Member
ACD Newsletter editor
Past president
www.automaven.com

Check out my new book at www.cordcomplete.com

[mbishop]

Stan:

I can confirm the existence of the Beverly sedan mentioned in these posts. It sits, partially restored, in my garage. The frame number is 948 and the body tag is C96 246. The engine is FB 421 that I assume is from a 1936 Cord (it has a top mounted fuel pump) and not original. I have wondered if the frame was original. The serial number plate is missing from the car.

Mike Bishop

[dryesandno]

josh

josh, i understand the book is now probably a bit out of date, but it was very useful to at least get this discussion going. looking forward to the new edition, when will it be ready?

brent

[dryesandno]

stan

thanks a whole bunch for the additional information. again, sorry to blather on, but i really, really appreciate your help on solving this puzzle.

can you read mike's post above. what do you think. is it possible that he and i actually have original correct frames and josh's appendix and your records should be switched.

it seems like the listings are mixed up in the appendix to josh's book. seems like mike has frame 948 (which is listed as a convertible coupe so he probably figured he had a wrong frame). but in fact it looks like 948 is maybe the correct frame for his car and should be listed as a beverly.

also, you and i thought i might have a wrong frame since you felt my car is 948 when its stamped 949. since the beverly listing was in the blank spot between 948 and 950 we figured it was 949. but in fact the stamping on my car looks correct. if the beverly is truly 948 then likely my car is 949. seems like the listings should be switched in josh's next edition.

what further work and who else do mike and i have to contact to get the right information recorded in the records.

where should he and i look for the frame number on our cords to finally sort this out after all these years? are there any other numbers we should check on our cars.

again thanks for your help on this.

brent

[dryesandno]

mike

thanks alot for your post.

really very interesting.

check out my post to stan. i figure we probably both have correct original frames and the records are wrong in josh's book.

have you double checked your frame number. are you sure its 948?

i will check my frame number when the car arrives if someone can tell me where to find it.

what do you think of all this?

brent